Jack Jones

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Lena & Harry Smith
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Lena & Harry Smith » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:29 pm

Well here's one to think about too.
Al Martino recorded a... "Sir Harry Lauder " song in the Fifties called "Sound Advice"
Part of rhe lyrics went like this ...
If You Have A Choring Wife Just Get Her In A Boat.
Throw Her Out And Push Her In To See If She Can Float.
If She Goes Up And Down Three Times, never Sit And Think.
But Lift You Oars And Row Away And Leave Her There To Sink. :shock:
So this could leave some wives feeling vexed. :evil:
It was the Fifties and any recording was no doubt welcome then to the host of struggling singers. :roll:

Gloria
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Gloria » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Wives and Lovers. Sadly, the public has forgotten that this was released as a movie exploitation song - but that's what happens when 40+ years pass by. The song was just meant to be catchy - and to remind listeners every time it's played that, "Hey, there's a new movie coming out called Wives and Lovers - see it!" But there was worry at first, because some radio stations were playing the other side of the 45 by mistake - the beautiful Toys in the Attic - which was more representative of the Jack Jones that fans had come to know. Wives and Lovers earned Jack plenty of money and fame, plus his Grammy, but not without consequence. Jack himself has often stated that he didn't deserve to win a Grammy for that particular performance, plus it led many to brand him a lounge singer (as did the Love Boat Theme many years later). And he's never won another Grammy since, even with the many superlative Kapp LPs he recorded that followed Wives and Lovers.

I have to admit that I LOVE this original recording. Once the great Pete King arrangement begins, and Jack's breezy vocals get started, I'm hooked! Jones' version is the only one I care to own, because its light-handed approach seems truest to what Bacharach & David wrote it to be.

But, yes, the words "little girl" and "little" sure were used a lot in old songs describing women.

Remember when Vic Damone had two songs - featured consecutively on the same album - called Little Girl (which was a big hit for him) and I Want a Little Girl?

And Sinatra's legendary recording of I've Got You Under My Skin featured the line, "Don't you know, little fool, you never can win?" When Frank re-recorded the song in the 60s, he dropped the "little." Maybe it was the frequent airplay of Wives and Lovers that finally led this phrase to be retired.

Here's another curiosity among old pop lyrics, involving Jack Jones' rendition of It Never Entered My Mind. These words were rewritten for Jack, for some unexplained reason:

Sinatra sang these lyrics:
Once you warned me, that if you scorned me, I'd say a lonely prayer again.
And wish that you were there again, to get into my hair again.

Jones sang the same verse like this:
I confess it, I didn't guess it, that I would sit and mope again.
And all the while I'd hope again, to see my darling dope again.

Jack manages to make this phrase sound convincingly endearing, yet you wonder . . why were the lyrics changed to this? Personally, I just find these old lyrics silly, and don't take them seriously. . but obviously, Gloria Steinem would strongly disagree with me. :roll:

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mariana44
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by mariana44 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:07 pm

Also in "It never entered my mind" Jack sang about how he would "Play Bingo day and Night--and never get the numbers right", and I have never heard anyone else sing those lyrics in that song.

Thank goodness someone else loves "Wives and Lovers" I was beginning to feel like the odd one out--I do not believe it is meant to be taken too seriously--as i mentioned elsewhre, it is bright and catchy--with clever lyrics--I think so anyway.

Really good to read your inrteresting post Gloria--you obviously know a lot about JJ and his music, and indeed he is very popular on this Forum.
Mariana

Gloria
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Gloria » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:06 am

Mariana: Wives and Lovers IS a clever song, and a great artistic achievement. You never have to feel embarrassed for recognizing that. Too many people refuse to praise all the talent involved in creating this song, because they don't want to be seen as politically incorrect. And Jack Jones was SO smart in the way he chose to interpret it - his voice just glides through those lyrics, putting more emphasis on the catchy melody and tempo. He never gets the credit he deserves for the intelligent and sensitive interpretive skills he was already displaying at such a young age. But thank goodness, more people are finding that out for themselves through YouTube, instead of listening to cowardly, politically correct critics anymore. And Jack, to his credit, has maintained a great sense of humor about it all.

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Marian
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Marian » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:08 am

Welcome to the forum Gloria. :D
Jack's Wives and Lovers has always been one of his most popular songs, but like Mariana, I think it was always not meant to be taken too seriously. In fact I had never even thought of the reference to "little girl" until it was mentioned here.
I know Sammy Cahn wrote special lyrics as a surprise for Jack for his song 'Call Me Irresponsible' - "Call me Allan Jones's son" etc. so it is possible other songs had re-written lyrics too. Maybe, at Jack's request.
Frank Sinatra often changed certain words, or left them out. I think this might have been to personalize them as his own.
A friend of mine always commented on how he altered the original compositions too in some cases :wink:
Marian :D

Gloria
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Gloria » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:09 pm

Hi Marian, and thank you for the welcome.
That rewrite of Call Me Irresponsible sounds like it was funny. I wonder if Jack ever performed it at party.
I know that Sammy Cahn formally rewrote My Kind of Town for Jack, probably because it was identified so closely with Sinatra, and Yes I Can was also personalized for Jack, since it was a signature song for Sammy Davis Jr.
Frank was the first to change the name in How About You, since it had previously been sung by Judy Garland. Instead of her lyrics, "and Franklin Rossevelt's looks gives me a thrill," Sinatra sung, "and James Durante's looks give me a thrill." I also remember Michael Feinstein retaining the Roosevelt reference, and Steve Lawrence substituting Eydie Gorme's name - but Frank's rewrite was obviously the most hilarious and unexpected.

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Mark Fox
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Mark Fox » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:40 pm

Interesting discussion :Jack Jones singing Sinatra songs-I recently compiled a CD for in-car playing'JACK JONES SINGS SINATRA'and included'MY KIND OF TOWN',IT NEVER ENTERED MY MIND','CALL ME IRRESPONSIBLE' in a full 79mins program with gems,'NICE N'EASY','HERE'S THAT RAINY DAY',well,you know the list I'm sure. Super Stuff!!! :D

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Marian
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Marian » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:09 pm

These are some of the great numbers Jack is reported to be including in his opening show tonight at The Oak Room of the Algonquin Hotel in New York...

“The Windmills of Your Mind,”
the score for Yentl,
“The Way We Were”
“Nice ‘n’ Easy,”
“That Face,”
“What Are You Doing for the Rest of Your Life,”
“Where Do You Start?,”
“You Must Believe in Spring,”
”How Do You Keep the Music Playing?,”
“Love Makes the Changes” and
“It Might Be You” will be included in Jack’s salute to his friends Alan and Marilyn Bergman.
:D :D :D

Hopefully JJ will bring the same show to the U.K in November :D
Last edited by Marian on Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gloria
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Gloria » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:56 pm

What a great idea for a new playlist - Jones singing Sinatra. But if I include Luck Be a Lady and Strangers in the Night, I'd have to be basing those choices on popularity, as Jack actually recorded both of those titles before Frank.

That's a great Bergman song list Jack has in store for this week's concertgoers. He's been extending recognition to the Bergmans for years now, and I'm sure they've been glowing in all his praise.

But I guess I will forgive Alan and Marilyn for their biggest career error (IMO), in writing inappropriately sappy lyrics for Ennio Morricone's haunting Deborah's Theme (a beloved classic which should've been left alone), allowing Celine Dion to record it, and worse yet, forcing the Maestro to sit and endure Dion's embarrassing, melodramatic performance while waiting to receive his Lifetime Achievement Oscar. But even the talented Bergmans are guilty of a "senior moment" now and then. :lol:

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mariana44
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by mariana44 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:45 pm

Going back to "How about you"---some singers sing it as "Frank Sinatra's looks give me a thrill"---and there are quite a few variations on it now--Shirley Bassey sings "Frankie Vaughn's good looks give me a thrill"--but my favourite overall version is by Bobby Darin, who starts with "Mr Kennedy's looks give me a thrill", but in the second half, he changes to "And Mrs Darin's looks give me a thrill"---not sure if he was still married to Sandra Dee when he sang that, but I always imagine that he is.

I have not heard "Deborahs Theme" with or without Celine Dion--but normally I love all the Bergman's music--Barbra Streisand often sings their music--including of course "The Way we were"--beautiful song-especially when you really listen to the lyrics-one of my best friends Ann , had it played at her funeral sung by Johnny Mathis.
Mariana

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Mark Fox
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Mark Fox » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:03 am

Gloria wrote:What a great idea for a new playlist - Jones singing Sinatra. But if I include Luck Be a Lady and Strangers in the Night, I'd have to be basing those choices on popularity, as Jack actually recorded both of those titles before Frank.

That's a great Bergman song list Jack has in store for this week's concertgoers. He's been extending recognition to the Bergmans for years now, and I'm sure they've been glowing in all his praise.

But I guess I will forgive Alan and Marilyn for their biggest career error (IMO), in writing inappropriately sappy lyrics for Ennio Morricone's haunting Deborah's Theme (a beloved classic which should've been left alone), allowing Celine Dion to record it, and worse yet, forcing the Maestro to sit and endure Dion's embarrassing, melodramatic performance while waiting to receive his Lifetime Achievement Oscar. But even the talented Bergmans are guilty of a "senior moment" now and then. :lol:
I included'STRANGERS IN THE NIGHT'but ran out of CD space before I got to 'LUCK BE A LADY'-am I correct in thinking Jack toured Stateside a few years ago in'GUYS AND DOLLS?

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mariana44
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by mariana44 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:10 pm

I certainly never heard about JJ in "Guys and Dolls"--but I am sure that Marian would know, one way or the other.

Gosh, I would love to see and hear him singing "I'll know" as a duet---not sure who could play his Sarah Browne though.
Last edited by mariana44 on Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mariana

Gloria
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Gloria » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:23 pm

I don't believe that JJ's played in Guys and Dolls since '95, which was a Vegas run.

Mariana: The recording by Celine Dion was renamed I Knew I Loved You. It was commissioned for a 2007 tribute album called We All Love Ennio Morricone. Deborah's Theme was originally written for Sergio Leone's last film, the 1984, four-hour epic, Once Upon a Time and America. It's the story of a group of friends who begin lives of crime, starting in their childhood years in prohibition-era New York, and following them into their elder years. Deborah was the little girl, and then the young woman, who Noodles (the lead character played by Robert DeNiro) is obsessed with, but can never have (not surprising, when you view the violent ways that these thugs treat their women). So, Deborah's Theme was written to express sadness and longing, rather than the syrupy, blissful song of love the Bergmans chose to redefine it as. The film was originally released in truncated form, then as a director's cut on pan-and-scan VHS, and then more years would pass before it finally saw its proper release on DVD. But in the meantime, the soundtrack became a classic, and it's now considered one of Morricone's all-time best. Yet the Academy Awards had been cruel to Morricone, never giving him a single original Oscar - not for Once Upon a Time in America (not even nominated), his famous spaghetti western scores, The Mission, Cinema Paradiso, Legend of 1900, Fateless and many others. Morricone had even stated that he didn't want a "special" Oscar, but he eventually agreed to receive one. The Bergmans are lucky that most of the public has forgotten who Morricone is, as well as Sergio Leone, Once Upon a Time in America, and the original soundtrack - no words can accurately express how disrespectful the Bergman lyrics and the Dion recording are towards all who were originally involved in the film and score. Sorry, Marilyn and Allen, but that is the truth. :cry:

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Marian
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by Marian » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:50 pm

Yes, I think Jack's run in Guys and Dolls would have been around 1995. He toured over here with his hair dyed for the part that year, a sort of lightish brown and it took a bit of getting used to!! :lol: :lol:
Marian :wink:

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mariana44
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Re: Jack Jones

Post by mariana44 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:56 pm

I wonder why they did not record it for posterity-I would have just loved it.

Hi Gloria-I will try and get a listen of that song somehow. Your views on it are just fascinating.
Mariana

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