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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:54 pm

Hi Jon, it's always gratifying to see your confirming
seal of approval appearing on our deliberations;
it may be that the newspaper misquoted Lynne Truss -
not an unprecedented occurrence.
Keith

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paul jh
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Post by paul jh » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:29 pm

Sorry, folks, but I'm with Ms Truss on this one.

Dos changes the pronunciation of the vowel from 'oo' to 'oh' or even 'ah'. Therefore an apostrophe is required to retain the correct vowel pronunciation of the word 'do'. Since don't has also been included in the compound, one needs to be consistent and add an apostrophe; thus it becomes don't's.

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:30 pm

Hi Paul
Please don't apologise for your interesting interpretation,
which is governed entirely by pronunciation. I would submit
that Dos written alongside dont's guarantees
that no change in the pronunciation would occur; and
consequently obviate the need for a second apostrophe in don'ts.
We'll have to agree to differ; however we can also agree
that this is a wonderfully erudite forum.
Keith

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jon
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Post by jon » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:55 pm

Paul's argument is reasonable but whoever hears anyone pronouncing the expression in the way suggested? I certainly never have. So Keith's analysis is correct.

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:56 pm

Until I read Paul's (possessive apostrophe) thought-provoking
contribution, I had assumed that an apostrophe indicated
either a missing letter (or letters) or possession. However I
concede the possibility that, in circ-umstances I have yet to
encounter, it may also be occasioned by pronunciation.
We live and learn.
Keith

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:19 pm

A LAMENTABLE LAPSE

Quote from a John Humphreys article in today's Daily Mail:
'The invitation went to John Sergeant too. He had just as
many reasons to turn it down as me.'
Wrong personal pronoun (should be as I or as I had).
At the risk of appearing holier-than-thou, I think this is a
deplorable own goal scored by a renowned upholder of high
standards in English grammar. If the experts cannot get it
right ...

Keith

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mariana44
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Post by mariana44 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:19 am

Just mentioned George on a previous thread-and combined with a word-puzzle I am doing, I have just remembered another 2 words from him-not quite sure if they are synonyms or whatever---but the words are

Cleave---as in cleaving together in marriage etc.

Cleave --as to cut something apart.

2 words-spelt the same--sound the same--but mean the exact oposite.
Mariana

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:03 pm

Hi Mariana
You've made a rare linguistic find; cleave is a homonym
that is also an antonym. The following is my manuscript
attempt at elucidation:

MEET THE ONYMS
(Ant, Hom and Sym)


Children of their English language mother,
they keep us on out toes.
By way of introduction, dear reader, here goes:

Antomyn is a contradictory character;
a word opposite in meaning to another.

Homonym is a seemalike, having the same sound
and perhaps spelling as another, but a different
meaning and origin. (Not to be confused with its
twin, Heteronym, which is a word of the same spelling
as another but of different pronunciation and meaning.

Synonym is the agreeable member of the family,
meaning a word similar to another.

It takes all sorts ...


Note. The siblings have a first cousin called Acronym -
a word formed by the initial letters of other words.
They also have a cousin called Eponym; a character
who lets his name be used as a title of a play or place,
for example. (The less said about Pseudonym the better;
this reclusive relation prefers to go through life incognito.)
Oronymns are the boundary-budging comedians of the clan,
e.g. 'a wee cough doesn't justify having 'a week off'.
Other relatives are toponym, a placename or word
derived therefrom, and metonym, a word used in a
transferred sense, e.g. 'the bottle' when referring to 'drink'.
A tautonym is a binomial name in which the specific repeats
the generic, whose most notable exemplar is Boutros
Boutrous-Ghali, the sixth secretary-general of the United Nations.

Keith

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:14 pm

I have a poor usage pet hate that is commonly perpetrated
by writers, journalists and reporters who should know better.
Consider these two sentences:

Matt Monro always had a magical impact.
Matt Monro always made a magical impact.

This egregious iniquity :) prompted the following
manuscript extract:

IMPACT
(Make, it's even euphonic,
not have)

Dictionary definition: the impulse resulting
from a collision or new theory; strong effect.
Therefore combined with such a puny verb,
the incompatible bed-mate have,
the powerful noun is emasculated
and the usage is scarcely superb.

Keith

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Marian
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Post by Marian » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:51 pm

I understand what you mean Keith...to make an impact is much more emphatic than to 'have' impact.
A much more powerful description altogether.
Marian :wink:

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:25 pm

Thanks Marian, it really gets under my skin
when reporters say, for example, 'This tragedy
had a devastating impact on the local community.'
However I'm gratified that my linguistic moan
made an impact on your good self.
And of course our marvellous Matt always made
a memorable impact. Here endeth the lesson.
Keith :D

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:01 pm

Forgive me, fellow forumites, while I re-mount
my linguistic high horse and attempt to round up
and corral a couple of mustang prepositions whose
undisciplined behaviour makes me smile:

ON(WORD) & UP(WORD)

Facile phrases such as
'early on' and 'phone up'
trip off our tongues each day,
but whether they are
pleonasms or tautologies
is less easy to say.
What can be said, alas, is
the particles (on & up) are
superfluous either way.

Note. Dictionary definition of pleonasm:
a redundancy of words, eg dip down.
Tautology: the inclusion of words in a sentence
that mean the same thing: I, myself, personally.
Particle: an adverb or preposition that forms part
of a multi-word verb. (The preposition 'up' may
also be an adverb when it is a verb modifier as in
eat up and speed up, for example.)

Keith

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:45 pm

This harangue from the literacy pulpit might equally
be posted on the 'irritating phrases' thread:

TO BE HONEST, LITERALLY

When we say, or write, 'to be honest'
we need to beware
that it may be received as a statement
of something rare.
Also beware:
'the rain came down in stair-rods, lit'rally',
means stair-rods would be lying everywhere.

Note. Replace honest with frank and
remember literally actually means, actually.

Keith

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keithgood838
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Post by keithgood838 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:56 pm

A 'raging' linguistic debate has been illuminating the Letters
page of the Guardian in recent days. To quote one contributor,
'Surely fewer of these letters would cause less irritation to readers.'
The following is my take on the subject, which I hope will not
provoke irritation among members of this forum:

DIMINISHING RETURNS

Less refers to quantity,
fewer is about number:
eg if you make less tea
you use fewer teabags
and avoid the grammatical blunder.

Note. Exceptions here are periods of time
and sums of money, which are single entities.
Therefore write, less than four months and
less than thirty pounds.

Keith

PS This thread is still open for queries
and clarifications. Even if I cannot come up
with the answer, I know a man who can.

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paul jh
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Post by paul jh » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:51 am

I'm sure I'll still have problems with less and fewer. :cry:

I never heard of those terms pleonasm or particle. I hope to use them one day.

Whenever I have free time, I plan to copy all of Keith's writings on English into a file, so I can always refer to it. Actually you should publish a book, Keith. :idea:

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