AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

The place to talk about everything
User avatar
mariana44
Posts: 16367
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Kent

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by mariana44 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:43 pm

Hi Keith--not sure of this has come up before, but what is the difference between "invaluable" and "valuable"---logically "invaluable " should mean "not valuable", but I do not think it does--I think it still means "valuable"--but that really does not make sense! Are there any other words like that, that appear to be opposite, but mean the same ?
Mariana

User avatar
Marian
Posts: 20956
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:02 pm
Location: Reading. Berkshire.

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by Marian » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:35 am

I always thought of something invaluable as something so valuable you couldn't put a price on it, such as 'invaluable' information, but I could well be wrong. We look forward to Keith's reply :wink:

User avatar
mariana44
Posts: 16367
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Kent

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by mariana44 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:21 pm

Thanks Marian for your interpretation-that does make sense to me now!
Mariana

User avatar
keithgood838
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by keithgood838 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:31 pm

Hi Marian(a)
Your knowledgeable namesake nailed the distinction between
the adjectives valuable and invaluable. The former simply means
something of high value, and the latter means something priceless
that cannot have a value put on it. Eg the invaluable nature
of the contributions you both make to this forum.
The similar adjectives, flammable and inflammable, appear
to have no appreciable difference in meaning, curiously.
Keith

User avatar
mariana44
Posts: 16367
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Kent

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by mariana44 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:46 pm

Thanks Keith for the explanation--and the compliment !!
Mariana

User avatar
Marian
Posts: 20956
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:02 pm
Location: Reading. Berkshire.

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by Marian » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:50 pm

Thanks from me too Keith. :D
Marian :wink:

User avatar
keithgood838
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by keithgood838 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:33 pm

Dear forum friend

Let me put to you some propositions
regarding problematical prepositions:

Which I pray you will be enamoured of
(not with or by),
which I hope you will acquiesce in
(not to),
which you may be oblivious of
(not to),
and compare to (in same class)
or compare with (if disparaging or complimentary).
Which I pray you won't be be bored by or in
(not of or with),
which you may reconcile to (a thing),
and reconcile with (me, a person).
Prefer (context permitting) died of to died from,
prefer replace with (present tense),
and replaced by (past tense).
May you be impressed by
the foregoing (not with) ...

Now where was I?
Oh yes, do not compound the things,
eg in connection with,
with reference to.

Yours prepositionally

Keith Good

A preposition usually precedes
a phrase containing a noun or pronoun.
Hence preposition.
Last edited by keithgood838 on Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Marian
Posts: 20956
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:02 pm
Location: Reading. Berkshire.

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by Marian » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:24 pm

Prepositions are so often spoken and written wrongly these days Keith. Thank you for the above. :D :D
Marian :D

User avatar
mariana44
Posts: 16367
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Kent

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by mariana44 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:58 pm

I was always taught that you must never end a sentence with a preposition !

Although sometimes it is difficult---eg --I wonder where she came from.

Should be--I wonder from where she came--

although that sounds wrong and the first instance sounds correct.
Mariana

User avatar
keithgood838
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by keithgood838 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:32 am

Hi Marian(a)
The advice is that you should strive to avoid ending a sentence
with a preposition. However, sometimes it is unavoidable if you
want to keep the sentence sounding natural and idiomatic.
Take the sentence, What a fine mess you've got us into.
You would end up with the linguistic malformation, Into what a fine
you've got us. Equally you would have to redraft the following sentences
to move the final preposition:

Everything was accounted for.
It's not worth worrying about.
He's impossible to reason with.
You'd better get that cough seen to.

I think I have covered this topic elsewhere in my manuscript;
I'll look it up.

Keith

User avatar
mariana44
Posts: 16367
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:26 pm
Location: Kent

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by mariana44 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:09 pm

I agree that it sounds strange , when trying not to end a sentence with a preposition. It's like learning a foreign language, sometimes you have to juggle the words and phrases around---

eg--La Plume de ma Tante---instead of "My Aunt's pen"--a simple example.
Last edited by mariana44 on Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mariana

User avatar
keithgood838
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by keithgood838 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:55 pm

The following is a variation on the theme of the preposition's place
in the literary scheme of things:

PIED PIPING and PREPOSITION STRANDING

With whom are you walking?
Here the linguists' pied piper preposition
proudly leads in a way that is formally fine.

Who are you walking with?
Now the poor preposition is stranded,
consigned in casual mode to the end of the line.

Both constructions are okay
in language-sensitive application,
but overuse of either may
engender reader irritation.

Keith

Eg The narrative a fiction is based on
is often grounded in fact (on is stranded). Recasting
as on which springs to the rescue in such circ-umstances

User avatar
keithgood838
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by keithgood838 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:17 pm

It occurred to me that the following
wordplay wisecracks would lighten
the mood of this sometimes earnest topic.

A QUESTION, OR THREE, OF AMBIGUITY

(1) If man evolved from monkeys and apes, how come they still exist?

(2) What if there were no hypothetical questions?

(3) Is there another word for synonym?

(4) If a parsley grower is sued can they garnish his wages?

(5) If a turtle doesn't have a shell is it homeless or naked?

(6) Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

(7) How is it possible to have a civil war?

(8) If you ate pasta and antipasto would you still be hungry?

(9) If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done?

(10) Whose cruel idea was it to have the word 'lisp' with 's' in it?

(11) Why is there a sell-by date on sour cream?

(12) Can an atheist get insurance against an act of God?

Keith :wink:
With thanks to Ed for his forwarded email.

User avatar
keithgood838
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by keithgood838 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:34 pm

Please forgive the sombre presentation
compelled by this topic, my forum friends:
I hope by means of a stark explanation
are justified demystifying ends ...

CONFINEMENT

Someone interned is temporarily restricted,
eg to a boarding school, as an assistant surgeon
at a hospital or as a prison inmate.

Persons interred are permanently restricted,
ie buried, the doomed for whom the Grim Reaper's
hand on their shoulder sealed their fate.

Keith

Note. Intern, dictionary definition: a graduate
who is receiving training at a workplace; to keep
within fixed bounds.
Inter: to bury a dead body.
'The evil that men do lives after them;
the good is oft interred with their bones.'
-William Shakespeare.

User avatar
lori
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:21 pm

Re: AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

Post by lori » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:39 pm

To Keith , Marianna, and Marian... To be very honest , during my school years,(HIGH SCHOOL) And Kansas City Art Inst. I did well in Art and Music Expression ... Sailed on by in English... Math forgettable... But I felt this morning in the`Lounge I was so thrilled to again experience an English lesson. I read over and over all of your always beautifully written words Keith.. And also Marianna and`Marian. I just wanted to stop by and thankyou so much for the much appreciated English lesson...

Post Reply

Return to “The Lounge”