AUTHORS' ANNEXE (English Language Discussions)

[paul jh]

Perhaps this has already been discussed, but if you could help, I'd appreciate it.

I heard a newsreader on Radio 1 say something like:

General Motors are helping out Vauxhall.

I always use a singular verb since General Motors is a single company and not a group of companies. Am I right or is the newsreader correct? This has really been bothering me lately.

[keithgood838]

Thanks for your query, Paul.
Other forum members please copy.
Your are correct, Paul. A company (or group of companies)
is a singular collective noun and takes the singular verb is.
The concept is called concord,
the verb that must agree with the subject of a sentence.
The exception (there's always an irritating exception)
is sports bodies, eg teams, clubs et cetera, therefore
we say 'the football team are playing well'.
Keith

Note. A good example of what I am driving at is
contained in the use of the verb is in relation
to the noun, exception in the foregoing sentence.
Exception is the subject of my sentence. I hope this helps.

[paul jh]

Oh, I don't always use a plural verb with a sports team. I will have to be more careful. Does the same exception apply to musical words, like duo, trio, quartet, ensemble, group? I just can't seem to say "the Krumlow Woodwind Ensemble are playing at Wigmore Hall on Sunday".

[Marian]

I think that should be 'is playing' Paul. ...but then I would also say 'the team is playing well' so I am probably wrong.
Marian

[keithgood838]

This is a very interesting topic for discussion
Marian and Paul. I'm off on holiday today, however I shall
be delighted to enlarge on this subject when I return.
Suffice to say in the meantime that in a sports context
the verb is always plural and in commerce it is singular.
Where it becomes complicated is when the sports club
is also a commercial company. I guess it depends
on whether you are reading the sports page or the
finance one. I look forward to developing the subject
of group nouns next week. Bye for now.
Keith

[Lena & Harry Smith]

Have a great holiday Keith, meantime we is about to have our breakfast

[Marian]

Enjoy your holiday Keith. I hope you can relax and give all thoughts of grammatical English a rest.

[mariana44]

Have a good holiday Keith--we shall try to have some more posers for you when you return

[keithgood838]

Thanks L&H (very funny), Marian and Marian(a) for your
good wishes, all of which were spectacularly granted.
To return to Paul's query, I think the easiest way to answer it
is to quote a manuscript extract:

FAMILY FORTUNES

Is it the family were
or the family was?
Let us endeavour to decipher
this familial conundrum here.
It is the family were
when they are separate members
and not, as one unit, combined.
Eg The family were warned about
lapses in school attendance.
It is the family was (a unit)
when successful in a television quiz
and joy was unconfined.
Eg The family was awarded a valuable prize
for putting on a winning performance.

Keith Good

Note. There is a concept called 'group nouns'
(when referring to individuals or components
that comprise a group: couple, jury, majority,
audience), which allows nouns to take the plural
verb are. When the group is regarded as a single
unit the singular form of the verb (is) is used.

Paul, as so often in linguistics context holds the key.

[Gray]

Have a great holiday, Keith.

[keithgood838]

Thanks Gray. I have just returned from a great golfing
weekend in West Cork. Fortunately, the elemental gods
were kind to us.
I was glad to see that your beloved Leeds United
are still showing the rest of League One a clean pair
of heels. They deserved to beat Liverpool last night.
They'll soon be back where they belong: at the top
of the football tree.
Keith

[Gray]

Oh sorry, Keith!
I've got muddled with the dates of the postings.
Glad to hear you enjoyed your golfing break.
Sounds lovely.
I was at Elland Rd last night for the Liverpool game, I sang myself hoarse.
I was so proud of our performance, we battled so hard.
It was a game so typical of the years supporting my beloved team - glorious in defeat!
Thanks for your kind words, Keith.

[paul jh]

Thanks Keith for your concord explanation.

A colleague has asked me the following. Can you help?

If A, B, and C are all nouns, which of these sentences is the proper or best form?

(1) A is not B, rather C.
(2) A is not B, but rather C.
(3) A is not B, rather it is C.
(4) A is not B; rather, it is C.

[mariana44]

I do not see how any of them can work, if they are all nouns---wouldn't B and C have to be adjectives for each one to make any sense.

And I would got for sentence 2.

[keithgood838]

NOUNAL NUMBER FIVE

On the basis of clarification
by determining just who is who,
and ensuring no elaboration
'A is not B, it is C' will do.

Keith

PS Three is correct if one has to retain
the superfluous 'rather'.